Military Domestic Violence & Coercive Control with Cynthya Pagan-Hale I Ep. 145

Final Month Series Kickoff

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Hi, Warriors. Welcome to Beyond the Statistics. I'm your host, Ingrid. Today is the final episode in our Domestic Violence Awareness Month series. Throughout this month, we centered our conversations around one important reminder. Everyone knows someone. Domestic violence reaches into every community, every profession, and every walk of life, including our military. Today, my guest, Cynthia Pagan Hale, is joining me to share her story of experiencing domestic violence as a military spouse, the unique challenges she faced, and her journey forward. Cynthia, welcome to Beyond the Statistics. Cynthia, hello, and welcome to Beyond the Statistics. I'm so happy to have you here, my friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yes, I'm so excited to be here. It's been a minute because I really love you and Grid.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

So I'm excited. I love you too, Cynthia. We have been talking about this, I think, for a couple of years for you to come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yes. Yes, we am.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Well, okay. Better late than never.

Meet Cynthia And Her Work

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Exactly. So before we get into your story, do you mind just sharing a little bit about yourself? Just something so that listeners can identify who's talking with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Sure. Um, my name is Cynthia Pugan Hale. I am uh the founder and CEO of FFT Helping Others, which you know helps domestic violence victims. Um, and then also the founder of the National Domestic Violence Rally, which we called NDBR. Um, and then also a global Google Ambassador, World Peace Ambassador. I'm an author, speaker, um, and a cognitive behavioral therapist and a psychodynamic psychotherapist, um, coach now because I did not renew my license, nor do I want to, but I am still certified in those things as a coach as well. So there you go. Shigel.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Nice. So, in case anyone was wondering why it took years to get to this point, you just explained that every single minute of your life is filled with something that is crazy, Cynthia.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I'm always uh flying out and doing speaking engagements at schools and universities and helping doctors and practitioners and interns to understand a little bit and reflect on domestic violence and sexual assault and child abuse and even human and sex trafficking. I think we don't reflect on those things because we don't understand it as practitioners. Um, so yeah, that's that's usually what I do, you know.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Okay. And you bring personal experience to the table with all of that, and that's why you're here today. Yes. And you're going to tell us uh something that we haven't heard about before. So I'm gonna let you take it away.

Military Spouse Abuse Unpacked

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, so military domestic violence is something very unheard of because a lot of people don't understand the working parts of it, right? So I was a wife uh who was married to a military member. I myself was not a military member. Um, so I dealt with what's called spousal domestic violence, military, spousal military domestic violence. Um, I was in a base, many bases actually started off in Quanaco, base after that we were transferred to Okinawa. And while I was there, I was first of all being sexually assaulted at first. And

Pregnancy And Violence Escalate

SPEAKER_01 4:05

when I was uh sent to Texas with my husband, I became pregnant. And that's when the domestic violence exploded. Not only was I dealing with sexual assault with him, I was also dealing with domestic violence. And with many military members, they don't understand, they've gone through basic training or boot camp, and they don't understand why they're so violent with their, you know, vi with their spouses. And this can be men or women. Um, we ended up in Wilmington, North Carolina, still pregnant, and my ex-husband would limit my food, so I can only eat a certain amount of food. So it was like rations. I can only have a certain amount of food. I even would hide it. I would literally hide food. I would put it in extra containers, pull it away. That way, when he went to work, I could eat a little extra. Um, he would take sometimes the battery out on the car so I couldn't leave anywhere. Um, spark plugs, he would do that. Um, he because we didn't leave live on base, it was hard for me to go and do something on base so that this violence could stop. Um and finally, a friend of his was like, I'm gonna let you borrow my vehicle. That way you can use it to go on base, go to the PX, go to the commissary, buy what you need. Um, and he would do it as and this was his battle buddy. So, like, he would do it to where he waited until my ex-husband would go to work, and then he would come bring me his truck. And I had to drive a truck. I never knew how to drive stick shift, and I had to drive a truck that was large and learning stick shift. And in Wilmington, North Carolina, there's lots of hills everywhere, and I remember going on base, pregnant, going through PTSD and anxiety already and depression, and the car stalled, and two MPs stopped me, and I was freaking out. I was crying, freaking out, because I thought they were gonna go and tell my ex-husband at the time, and the abuse was gonna get worse. And both of these MPs, well, one specifically was yelling at me, hey ma'am, you're stopping the everyone. The other one was so patient, and he was like, You're pregnant, I can tell that you're going through anxiety. So let me get in the car with you, let me get in the truck with you, and I will drive you to the commissary and where you need to go. And he was at the time just helping me to learn how to drive it, and I was so freaked out, I was nervous, and getting the food at the commissary, I kept looking at my shoulder, going, he's gonna find me here. He he's gonna know I left the house. And so I rushed back to the house, and the thing was is I would have to park the truck in like really far away in like the woody area. So then I would have to walk where we were at, and we had like a double-wide, beautiful trailer, it was gorgeous, and the violence was so bad at times that I wanted to die. I just wanted to die. I wanted it to be over, and I hated my life. And I remember my mom coming one time, and she, you know, they put up a front. Men of violence put up a fret. Their narcissism is is so bad that you're scared, but they give you this look like, don't say anything. And she was thinking, oh my god, it's so beautiful, look at the baby room, and all of that. And when she left, I hugged my mother so tight and I started crying, and she thought it was because I was she was leaving and I was hurt because she's my mom. That's not why I was crying. I was crying because I don't want you to leave me here with this violent man. I, mommy, I need to, but I could not verbalize it to her, and she didn't know. And uh I know that it was it was pretty upsetting.

Reporting On Base Hits Walls

SPEAKER_01 8:45

I went back on base to put an IP report on my ex-husband. And so I went to a commanding officer and I was like, hey, my husband's doing A, B, and C. And the first thing they did was, oh, well, you need to go see a chaplain. I went to go see the chaplain, and I explained to the chaplain, hey, this is what's going on at my home. I've been sexually assaulted. Here are the bruises. Can you help me? Um, no, we need to send you to another department. By the time I got from A, B, C, all of these offices, they all knew I was on my way. And so I saw absolutely no help. Even when I went to the community services that actually deal with that kind of stuff, nobody wanted to help me. Absolutely nobody. And I remember going home and being pregnant and going home and feeling so down. I felt hopelessness, I felt anxiety, I felt there was absolutely zero assistance for me. And I remember my ex-husband smoked. He's he smoked cigarettes like crazy. A lot of military members do. And I remember his buddy coming over, and I we invited him to come and eat. And my ex-husband went outside to smoke, and his buddy, who was helping me with the car, stayed inside with me, and he goes, Cynthia, it it's enough. My mother went through this, and I saw too much of it. And he's like, I'm helping you to get out of here. And I was freaked out, and I said, No, no, no, it's not that bad. I got so scared, and then it was two or three days later, my ex-husband had to go because they did a lot of um not only PT, but he had to like take trucks to places, uh uh vans and things like

A Friend Plans Her Escape

SPEAKER_01 10:49

that. And so his battle buddy came into my house. I didn't know why he was coming. He came and goes, Okay, pack up a bag. I'm taking you out of here. Put everything, and I was so freaked out because I was like, Oh my god, I just bought baby things, I can't leave my baby things, and just bought Joseph like this crib. I can't, I can't. I can't. He goes, No, pack a bag. That's all you can take. And so I packed up a bag as fast as I could. And he goes, We're going at least two counties away, you know. Um, because I remember one time my ex-husband choked me and he was like, I will kill you before anybody, and I can hide your buddy body. No one will find you. And I remember him saying that to me, and I was scared. And throughout the whole time that I was in the truck with this guy, with his friend, I was in the truck with his friend, I kept saying, He's gonna find me. I'm gonna die. He's gonna kill me. You guys know how to kill people. And he was like, Don't worry, we're gonna go two counties away. He took me to this place.

Shelter Intake And Crushing Isolation

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Um, it was like a shelter, but it's not the shelter shelter per se, at first, because you had these are places that are very secure. So you had to start filling out paperwork, and he was there, and I was scared, I was crying. And the ladies are like, We're gonna call the police right now. Is that him? They were gonna arrest him. And I'm like, No.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Oh my gosh, don't arrest him.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I was like, Don't arrest him, please. He's the one that helped me. Oh my goodness. And he was like, No, I'm not her ex-husband. I'm nothing to her, I'm just a friend. And I'm feeling out paperwork, very nervous, and they took me to the shelter. I said goodbye to his friend. Um, he took me to the to they took me to the shelter, and I felt so alone. I really felt so alone. And most military ex-wives, wives who are being abused feel alone, um, more than per se civilians. Because we are fighting the military. We're not fighting just like regular civilian activities. We're trying to find an aid and assistance where we can't get it. And so I not only was worried about him and his behavior, I was worried about I wasn't gonna get help because he was gonna get help through JAG. Um, he was gonna get help because military members have that assistance. They have anybody doesn't have a lawyer, they have lawyers. I didn't have a lawyer. If it was gonna go through courts in the military, I I was gonna win. I wasn't gonna win. And even when I did go to court, I remember that the judge was ex-navy. And the first thing, and he came in like he knew what he was doing. He came in full gear. Um in his seriously, yes, and his yes, he came in, and the first thing that the judge said was, Oh, what branch are you with? And he goes, I I was in the Marines, I'm in the Marines, and he goes, Oh, I'm ex-navy. And right there I knew I'm never gonna win this. Just it it's impossible. This guy who's his judge is is literally was a a jag. I knew it, and I was like, I'm not gonna win this, but let's I digress back to the story. My dad

Calling Her Parents From Safety

SPEAKER_01 14:46

is 30 years retired military, he was actually in the military at that time. And when I was at the shelter, I was like, my my caseworker was like, let's call your parents. Um, I was 20 at the time, and I was like, No, no, you you can't call my parents. I was like, my dad's gonna be mad at me. I kept thinking that he they were gonna be mad at me. I said, My dad's gonna be mad at me. My dad's in the military. You know, he was happy when we got married because military, military, you know, and I said, No, I I can't call my parents. And she was like, What if I call and I'll call and I'll talk to your mom and dad? I said, Okay, mind you, I'm 20. 20, I'm 20. So then they called my parents. I'm crying like a crazy person. And my dad wasn't one that picked up the phone, and my dad was like, What's going on with my daughter? And I remember my mom was in the background. I'll talk to her, and we're Hispanic. I'm Puerto Rican, okay? So we don't say things kindly, we yell at it, even when it's nice, we still yell at it, especially Puerto Ricans. We are very vocal, even when we're happy. And what's going on with my daughter? I'm crying in the background. He's ex she's explaining everything. Your daughter is here, this is a shelter. Um, she was abused by her husband, she was sexually assaulted. You do know she's pregnant, and I hear my father like he is leading the battalion. What? Oh my gosh. Like he's I knew something was going on, and then I hear him go, and I'm in this, because that's how my dad talks to my mom. He says her full name. And I'm coming to pick you up right now. And I lived in North Carolina, they were in Virginia, and they drove four and a half hours just to come get me. And my dad was very compassionate. Um, my dad's military, he could be very militant with us. He he's leading us like a platoon, all of us. My sister, my brothers, me. Um, when he talks, he's very like, hey, this is the military, and I'm I'm the I am the leader here. I am the commander of this. And he didn't act like that. My dad was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna call his commanding officer, just wait. I'm gonna call. And I said, No, I I don't want you to do that because I'm scared. And he got released from being in the military because he hit an officer. Um, my ex-husband did hit an officer. Uh he um but when I gave birth to my son, my sister accidentally told him what hospital, but she didn't know what was going on.

Hospital Confrontation After Birth

SPEAKER_01 18:03

My mom and my dad didn't, and I said, please don't tell my brothers, please don't tell my sister. And she accidentally told him what hospital and everything, and he came with his parents and showed up in my room after 12 and a half hours of labor, and I was exhausted, and he came in yelling up a storm, and he goes, You better not name my son da-da-da. Because I was gonna call my son Fernando, and uh he goes, You better not call my son that. And I am exhausted, nobody's in my room, I'm exhausted, and I was scared he was gonna take my son. Now that has happened. I've had clients that have told me that there have been some military members that stole their kids out of the hospital. That's that's a nasty, it was a weird story. So then my brother steps into the room. Who you have brothers? My oldest brother steps into the room and goes, Why the hell are you here? Because he knew what was going on. He told my mom told my brother, my oldest, but not my youngest, and explained what happened, and my brother came in and goes, What the hell are you doing here? Get the hell out of this room. And even still to date, I don't know where he's at. And it does, there are some times, even though I'm a therapist, there are some times when I smell things, I hear things that do reflect back to where I was at. You know, there's certain foods that he liked, and I don't cook anymore, but sometimes I could smell it in a restaurant, and I'm like, you know, and that happens to a lot of people who have PTSD. I think we talked about that, that have PTSD. Yeah. And they reflect back on that scenario. So that's kind of that's a tidbit of my story. And I don't like sharing that a lot. But you got the story, Ingrid.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Well, thank you. We are all so honored. You shared with us. So you didn't what that was the last time you ever saw him?

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, the last time that I no, that wasn't the last time I saw him.

Court, Child Support, And Ongoing Fear

SPEAKER_01 20:20

The last time that I saw him was the when we went to child support and he kept calling Joseph an it instead of calling Joseph Joseph. And the judge that we had was a female judge, and she goes, I I I Mr. I'm not gonna say his name. Mr. You uh have two options. You can either call him by his name or call him the child in question, but you will not call a child, especially this child, that name ever again, and if you do your in contempt of court, and then she continued with the proceedings and he tested her, tested the waters, tested it again, and called Joseph, which is my oldest, and it. And she goes, That's it. Everybody out of my court, you stay, you stay, you stay. So she told the people who were like the lawyers, because I think he had someone that went with him, a lawyer that went with him, and then me and my mom had the county judge, uh lawyer. And this judge goes, You stay, you stay, you stay. Everyone else out of my court. And she told the deputy, that is it. She told my ex, Mr. Mr. Da-da-da, you have been in contempt, you're now going to jail, and this is your fine because I told you more than once to stop doing that. And so they arrested him right there on the spot. That was that was the last time I saw him, like visually. Every single time I he came in on a re voice thing, um, voicemail kind of thing. Um, other times it was still scary, it was still very scary. And I did have an advocate. Thank goodness I had an advocate that would come with me. And at that time, they didn't really let her in to the court. She could be outside, but she was only helping in the outside period, and I still was freaking out. Because I was like, oh my God, again, he's ex-military. He could kill me like he said, and I would be dead. So those those were the last times that I saw him. And then I didn't I didn't see him for a really long time. And um even even then I I told Jo I was still scared when Joseph was little. Joseph was very little. I I watched him like a hawk. Um because I didn't want him to pick him up at school or anything. And thank goodness he never wanted to know anything about Joseph. So that was like a godsend. Yes, God sent.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

But were you able to get a protective order or anything?

Protective Orders And Overseas Reality

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Or doesn't that work with military? Well to get to just do what they want.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Well, um, yeah, I had a protective order and no trespassing ordinance, even though I really didn't need the no trespassing, um, I still had one. But because sometimes you're on base and I wasn't on base, thank goodness. Um, those protection orders uh don't really work, uh, especially when you're going from one base to another, or if you're overseas. If you're overseas, by the way, if you're overseas, there is no thing as domestic violence, especially in Okinawa and Japan, there is, or most countries, domestic violence is legal. So there is no domestic violence, there is no sexual assault, so really there's no community effort outside of the base, you know. So during that time that I was being domestic violence, that I had being sexual assaulted because that it was in Okanara during that time, I couldn't go anywhere. I couldn't say, hey, I'm going out of you know the base, and there's a place to go to. There is none of that because it's not recognized. And so there is no place for a lot of us, like in Germany, if there's a thing in Germany that there is no domestic violence in Germany. If you go to Korea, no, China, absolutely not, India, absolutely not. So if you're going to a base like that, you can't go out of base and get help and assistance. So we're gonna have to deal with it. Sit on that, sit it, sit on it. And it's sad, and that's why a lot of times we need to fix legislation, specifically in military bases that are overseas, because of that issue. There's been so many violent actions of women, even men who have died at the hands of their perpetrator overseas because they get no assistance, even in their own personal base. You know, there I don't know if you remember the stories in Germany where there's one girl literally was killed, and her parents are still to date, to date, trying to fight that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Um so yeah, yeah, very I have no idea that overseas thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

The overseas are very something needs to change, and it's not so much in military bases here, because we do have assistance here in most military bases, and they have changed a lot of legislation for military members and even those who are perpetrators that are causing these issues. But overseas, because they're there's none of that, and you can't even go to an ambassador and say, Hey, uh I'm dealing with this, embassy can't really step on those toes. They can't intertwine or step on toes that has to do with the military, because the military they're almost like a titan, they're an automaton that you cannot fight against. This is federal, and even overseas, you can't step on toes to a commander who's dealing with his base, so yeah.

Why The Military Keeps It In-House

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Uh I I was actually going to ask about the the embassy stepping in. So when there are allegations of domestic violence, is that something that the military investigates themselves? Can you get outside assistance? Assistance?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Before, no. Uh, I don't know if you remember um Vanessa, Vanessa Gillian in Texas. Um they were trying to handle things on-site in base. The thing, the reason why Vanessa Gillian's story was so impactful is because her parents decided, hey, no, this is not going to work for us. Our daughter died, and you're choosing to do this on base, hush-hush. And so many times, because like I said, many commanding officers are trying to do things on base on site so that they can keep things very hush-hush. And I'm gonna tell you why. About 50 to 80,000, and you can look this up, 50,000 women and men are domestically abused and no actions have been caused within base, meaning that anything that happens on base stays on base. And so there's been 50,000 allegations and procedures that never have been dealt with. Good story. A woman was sexually assaulted while she was in the and she was a military member, was militarily abused and sexually assaulted, and instead of dealing with the situation, they decided to switch her to another base. And she committed suicide because nobody paid attention to the stress and the pain and the suffering, none of that. And thousands of sexual kids are still sitting on counters and things like that because military members choose not to address these things. That's the issue. Like I said, federal government is an automaton. They want to keep things in-house, they don't want to say there's an issue. Because once they know they say there's an issue, investigations start. And it's not our investigations, it's federal government investigations.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Well, and we know how well those federal government investigations go. Even when the whole nation knows about massive, I don't know, like trafficking kind of issues. Yes. Um how did how did his friend know what was happening?

SPEAKER_00 29:17

His mother was uh abused.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Uh and so he just recognized signs or did he did. He recognized it. And he was coming to our house a lot too. So he was like, I see bruises, and they're in places that shouldn't be. It's not like I could say, Hey, I hit a wall.

unknown 29:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

None of that. Well, the the stories of us, you know, as victims, we usually say, Oh, I hit a wall, and that's how I got the bruise. These were in places that no human being would say, I hit a, you know, there's there's a necklace of bruises, you know, it's hot outside and I'm wearing collars. That makes no sense. I'm pregnant and I'm wearing a collar. I should be wearing something cool. And he recognized it immediately. And there were times that I was really putting up front like a happy family, and that I was a happy wife, and he would look at me and he would look at him, and he was still his friend, but he came from a family of victims. Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

That's really incredible because I've heard I've had so many people come on here and tell me stories, and there were so many opportunities where someone could have intervened, and someone probably recognized, but just chose to look the other

The Price Of Silence And Healing

SPEAKER_02 30:36

way.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

And here's a story where that man probably saved your life.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Had I had someone be on my side when we were in Okinawa, like had they had my backing, I probably would have been able to leave that military base with assistance um and come home. And even in the other bases, if someone would have stepped up, just like this this guy, if they would have stepped up early, I think I would not have been so destroyed, you know? And I I was destroyed as a pregnant woman. I I was destroyed. I and I tell this to a lot of victims all the time because they're still victims, they don't become survivors until years later. And I tell them all the time take your time, don't start nonprofits, don't write a book, uh, don't get involved in advocacy. And the reason why I say that is because it takes a long time for you to process what's going on physically, mentally. It took me 10 and a half years to really go through the process of classes and groups and personal therapy and all of that. And um and I was a therapist myself. So I knew I knew the steps, I knew the behaviors, I knew all of that. Um, but it takes time for you yourself to start recognizing, especially when you're in the military, to recognize what's going on with you. You're not going to sit there and say, okay, I've immediately I'll be I accept it. That's just not gonna happen. Acceptance is not immediate. It's not immediate, it takes time.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Oh, absolutely. I didn't have my story, it is bad as well. And we're nobody's comparing here. So if you're listening thinking, it wasn't really abuse because my story doesn't sound like Cynthia's story. It's still it's still abuse, and it still takes time to to process it. And for the first year after I got out of my relationship, I thought I was okay. And it took it took for the cracks to start showing for me to start recognizing I'm not okay and went and got help. So it's everybody's on their own timeline, and it does definitely take

Charges, Extradition, And Legal Gaps

SPEAKER_02 33:17

time. I wanted to ask, did he ever get charged with anything?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Um the only charge that he got was when he hit a military, uh, when he hit an officer. That was the only charge. Um, when he got out, because we were already separated, uh, no charges were were given because he was sneaky and smart enough to know I'm already in North Carolina, let me leave to go to Florida, and she's in Virginia. So how is she going to do charges? And most co most counties and most states do not like to extradite a person to another location. Child support, none of that. No, they don't communicate. States don't say, hey, I'm gonna pull this individual and put him in jail because there has been a a person who's you they sexually excuse me, they sexually assaulted or abused. So yeah, no. He was he was not charged at all. At all. And then my protection order only lasted three years at that time. So I had to keep looking over my shoulder, you know, and that happens to a lot of people, military or not, they just don't like to extradite the person, you know, unless it's severe and they try to commit murder. Um, no, no, not at all. No, never.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Even then, if they try to commit murder, they didn't succeed, they're only going to see so many years in prison, if you know, if any.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Yeah. But and I'm sure there's listeners here probably going, oh yeah, he never got extradited and he cut me, or he this or he that, or you know, now there's strangulation um laws that are being recognized. If you strangle a person, back then there was no laws like that. But strangulation now is is almost like trying to commit murder, you know. It's I don't know if it's third, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if it's second or third degree, I don't know. Um, but trying to commit any strangulation is still considered a federal offense now. Um, but back in that time, who they didn't think of it like that. And I'm sure even now, I'm sure even now there's probably a lot of women who are or men, they're they're dealing with that same situation or issue, not knowing.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Oh, for sure. For

Strangulation And Homicide Risk

SPEAKER_02 36:00

sure. And with strangulation, I say this all the time, but the likelihood of being killed by your perpetrator if they have strangled you, it used to be around 750% increased likelihood that you would die by their hand. It's now, I just had an episode with Brian Bennett. He is a an expert on strangulation. It's now around 800 to 1,000 percent increased risk.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yes, yes, because you have lack of oxygen just going to your brain. Um, you your body's not able to send the right information. Uh I'm trying I'm trying to not say it medically, but um, you're not getting the right processes of information going to your brain so that you can either get away or whatever the case may be, your eyes start to get bloodshot, you know. Uh like I said, losing oxygen to your brain, uh not be able to hear properly, and then that also can cause issues after, because then you're not still not can't hear. Um, sometimes visual, you know, your vision can be very, you know, off, and that can cause a lot of damage. You can't swallow properly, um, can cause a lot of damage with having to eat later on, you know. And so strangulation was, is now being recognized federally only because so many women, so many men are are having physical ailments because of that, you know, situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Yeah. And it's it I it might be the number one indicator of future homicide. Uh yes. I know it's up there. I know it's one of the top. I don't know if it's actually number one.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

It is.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

But it's uh pregnancy is too, and I wanted to bring that up. Pregnancy is a big indicator for risk of homicide.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

It is, it is. Um, like I said, my my victimization didn't start, like the huge victimization did not start until I was pregnant. And the thing that you used to say all the time is, are you gonna pay more attention to the baby than me? Are you still gonna do those were the things that I was like, no, I'm not, and of course I'd pay more attention to you because I was so fearful, I'd be like, no, no, no, I'm gonna pay a lot of attention to you, not the baby. I promise, you know, and many women are placed in that same situation where instead of thinking of the child, they think I have I have to make sure that this person is is okay, because if I don't, my life is in danger, is in a lot of danger, and um it could I I'm trying to say it kind of nicely, but there could be a situation in which a the pregnant individual um could be with a perpetrator that also has other debilitating issues, and it could be anything, bipolar OCD, it could be alcoholism, it could be drug addiction, and so that pregnant, you know, person, their spouse, their other half, could is not only dealing physically what's going on with the changes in their body, being tired, um, throwing up, whatever the case may be, but now they have to worry about their drug addiction, their alcoholism, uh, their debilitating issues of whatever the case may be, schizophrenia, and having to deal with their domestic violence issue or their sexual assault issue, and also dealing with this other purpose, they're a perpetrator. So can you imagine that? That's that's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

And people ask why you don't just leave. I mean, I think we I think we figured out why. Okay, is there anything else? Uh actually I want to go into what you're doing

The National Domestic Violence Rally

SPEAKER_02 40:11

now. You mentioned it at the beginning, the million things that you're involved in. And if people want to follow you or know more about you, where can they find it and what exactly are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Um, so the National Domestic Violence Rally, this was your seventh annual. Um, what we do is we walk from a really famous church in Washington, D.C., where Dr. Martin Luther King did one of his famous speeches, and we start walking in solidarity, um, in unity uh with other organizations that do this work, this humanitarian work, because we are humanitarians. This is a work that has to continue on. So what we do uh every the every beginning Friday of Domestic Violence Month, we walk in solidarity to the Washington Capitol, our nation's capital, because we have to acknowledge that this is an issue that even though the vowa has been um redone so many times, even though there's legislation out there that can still assist and help, there's still things that we could do. A lot of legislation we need to fix, you know, and a lot of wording. Um, and and also a lot of what I said before, we're so separated, we're not standing on the same exact platform saying, hey, we all we all have to work with each other. Let's figure this out. And so there's speakers that walk together with us, a lot of organizations. It's an open, open, free event. And uh people who had like to tell your their story. Not all of us are the same, like you said, we all have different stories, we all came from a different area of violence, just violence, it's all violence, um, a different area of violence. And um, my position, mine, and my the story that I like to share is Britney's. Britney, um, it's called Britney's Law. Her grandmother is fighting in New York. Brittany and her mother, who is her daughter, died by an xaccto knife. They were murdered. This man came in, the boyfriend came in and cut them. Can you imagine? Cutting constantly with an Xacto knife and killed them both. And so I stand when I do my portion of speaking, I always have a pinwheel, and that pinwheel is blue, and on it it says Brittany. And and Helen was her mother. And uh, I know that they were gonna do Helen's Law and Brittany's Law. And I really stand with the grandmother. She was destroyed, you know, she was destroyed. Her mother died, her s her daughter died, Brittany died, and so I really that's my portion, even though I have a great military, you know, story, I do, I would rather share their story. I would rather share to share their story because no child, no child should die like that. No child. But that's what we do, and I'm a speaker.

unknown 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

If you need right.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

So if somebody does want to book you for speaking, where can they go? How can they follow the val the rally?

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Yeah, so if you decide that you uh want to have me as a speaker, um, sorry, I forget my it's called Cynthia Paganspeaker.lovable dot app. And they can go there, they can schedule me. Um, and uh they can also go to my Facebook page, which is Cynthia Pagan Hale, and they can go directly to any of my websites and uh linked it anywhere and just reach out to me. I'm more than welcome to train. I have trained not only physicians and interns, but also police officers um to recognize a lot of mental health. That actually combines with narcissism and domestic violence so they can recognize it immediately. And they can say, okay, this person needs to be arrested. Let's get them out of this household. Um, so that there's a safe environment for the family or help them so they can position themselves in between and say, hey, I believe you. I believe what you're going through. I believe you. So um, yeah, I do speak in engagements even to universities about uh dating violence, teen dating violence, things like that in school systems. Um so yeah, you want to schedule me? I fly everywhere. So, and that's usually what I do a lot.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

A lot of you are

Words Of Wisdom And Closing

SPEAKER_02 45:15

amazing. And I did not warn you ahead of time. And I you are the first guest I've had in over a year that I have forgotten to warn ahead of time. But I end every episode by asking my guests for words of wisdom or encouragement they specifically want to leave with listeners. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Um, you know, it's funny you said that my my son is going through a lot right now with his wedding, and he really wanted to talk to both of us. Um I'm actually opening up his text message. Um, he he's going through a place when you're going through a wedding is hard. A wedding is hard, but also you feel like I don't know how to recognize that I need help. Um, and I remember typing to him, and I actually have it here. Uh, these are my last words to him before we ended the text. I said, Love is eternal, it's not gold, it doesn't fade, it's not iron, it doesn't rust, it's not diamonds that lose its shine, it lasts forever. So family lasts and it's worthy to last forever for everything you do. Remember that that your family is worth it, that your children are worth it. And that's why I sent it to them. I'm about to cry. No. Um, and so remember, it's not it's not iron, it's not gold, and it's definitely not diamonds. Remember that you are vital, you're important, and you count. You count.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

We see you. Thank you so much, Cynthia. This was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Anytime, angry.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

Thank you again, Cynthia, for joining me today, and thank you, Warriors, for listening. You can find the links Cynthia was referring to as well as her Beyond the Statistics profile in the show notes. I will be back next week with another episode for you. Until then, stay strong, and wherever you are in your journey, always remember you are not alone. To learn more, explore episode resources, browse a collections, or register as a guest, visit Beyond the Statistics Podcast.com. If today's episode meant something to you, please share it with someone who may need it. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and follow Beyond the Statistics on social media. Beyond the Statistics is a.5 Panoy production. Music written and performed by Tim Crow.