Life After Domestic Violence: Hypervigilance, Trauma & Healing with Ray Floyd I Ep. 130

Welcome And Ray’s Story

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Hi Warriors, welcome to Beyond the Statistics, formerly one in three. I'm your host, Ingrid. What happens when someone asks for help and no one truly listens? In this episode, I'm joined by Ray Floyd, author of the memoir No One is Listening. Ray shares his experience as a survivor of domestic violence, reflecting on the red flags he now recognizes, the lasting hypervigilance that followed the abuse, and the difficult journey of healing. We also explore the many moments when someone could have listened and how those missed opportunities can change the course of a person's life. Ray's story challenges long-held assumptions about domestic violence and reminds us that abuse does not discriminate, and neither should our willingness to listen. This is Ray's story. Hi, Ray. Welcome to Beyond the Statistics. I am so happy to have you here. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Okay, so could you share just a little bit about yourself so listeners can get to know you a bit?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

I'm um I'm um your average Midwestern knucklehead. You know, I grew up in the Midwest. I grew up on, you know, meat and potatoes and um see your grandparents a couple times a year if they didn't live close to you. I had really great family. I got um two older sisters and an older brother. I was the baby of the family, because of course I was the brat. You know, later on in life, my dad called me the mouth of the family and said, I'm gonna take that as a compliment.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

I think that's always the youngest, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 2:15

The mouse. Yeah, I had a had a good childhood growing up. My parents weren't, you know, they weren't um like heavy drinkers knocking each other out and all that stuff, and they uh stayed together until they died in their 80s. You know, they they got got married young and and uh stayed forever. And um really I had the Norman Rockwell type childhood. I didn't have there weren't police kicking our doors down and dragging our parents off. And I know so many people like that that I I I look back and think I was, you know, it was really fortunate. Um I feel bad for some of the the the stupid stuff I did as a kid and uh you know older teenager and a young adult, you know, because my folks did not raise raise me to do the things I did, but I managed to get through them and I'm still standing and you know, things think things are good. So um I spent time um in a manufacturing environment, if you will. Uh it was kind of what you did in the area, and um I spent time working in factories and ended up being assistant production manager, production manager, general manager, president of company a couple times. Um I finally found myself that I really don't like just I don't sit still real well. So um traveling was good for me. It gets me out, it's a dynamic position and it gets you out into the world and every day's different and I like that. Um I did a paramedic thing for a while, um, and that was just a part-time, part-time base, did that for seven years. And if you like adrenaline, that's a good thing to do. Yeah. Yeah, other than that, I'm just kind of your average guy. I'm in my 60s now and um wrote a book.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah, average guy with not such an average story, uh more common than people realize, I think. But yeah, it's it's quite a story. And you did write a book called No One Is Listening.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

I did. It's it's I wasn't gonna write a book, but I had more people that asked me what was going on, and I said, Well, I've I've got a three-hour story if you want to hear it. And more people I talked to, they said, You need to write a book. I've had people tell me this would make a good movie. And uh I don't know about all that. I really started writing the book

Why He Wrote The Memoir

SPEAKER_02 4:32

just to really I don't know, put it on paper and get it out of my head, if you will, you know, something I was gonna leave the grandkids behind so they can say what happened and why. I can say, here it is. You know, document it while I can still remember it while I'm still young enough and get it in the place. And I I had a uh cousin who's a published author, and I sent it to her and asked her if she would read it. And she said, When are you going to publish this? And I said, I I hadn't planned on it, but you know, I said, I was just kind of looking for your opinion. And she said, No, we need to correct a few things, you know, change the font and you know, format it and things like that. But she said, This is definitely published publishable and you should. Um it could help some people. And I I never really looked at it as being a helpful tool, but the more people that have read it, I've gotten more phone calls and more notes and emails back that somebody says, Okay, now now we see that you're crazy enough to share your experiences in a book, I'll share mine also. And so I've been hearing a lot of other stories that are similar to mine. And but I I don't know, I was getting the book out there, I think. Hopefully it will help some people. Um, maybe not get so far into the situation where it gets as bad as mine ended up being, you know. Maybe it'll help them see some some signs and symptoms of things that will help them cut the situation off at the knees before it gets too bad. And I'm hoping that I'm hoping that it helps some people. But if there's people that have been through it and if they they read it and they can relate to it and talk about it and get some help, um I'd be happy with that.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yeah, well, I I did read it. I actually I had it on Audible and I got the hard copy because I like to take notes in books. Uh I like to read with a pencil and take some notes in there. It is very relatable. I think that anybody who's been through a relationship like this may not say this is exactly what happened to me, but as I was reading through, I was like, oh, yep, there's me. That was me. That was me. And then definitely the the after part. I think that so many people are going to be able to read this and identify with a lot of your feelings afterward. Uh, I want to talk about the title. No one is listening. Uh, you do mention it throughout the book, but uh was it easy to come up with that title? What was it that stood out to you that you thought this was definitely what it should be called?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Yes, I was writing the book and I was talking about the you know, the the system, all the people that run the system. And I remember talking

The Meaning Behind The Title

SPEAKER_02 7:07

to them saying, I I don't I don't want it to happen like this. Okay, taking somebody and locking them up for a one-time thing, as horrible as it was, doesn't help that person. And it doesn't help their family, it doesn't help their their children, their grandchildren, their friends, it doesn't, it doesn't do a thing. All it does is clears it off an attorney's desk. Gone, they washed their hands of it. There you go. They're done. That problem's out of my way. That doesn't help the person. And I beg these folks, I said, you actually have the chance to help someone. Um there was a horrible crime committed, and punishment needs to be there absolutely. But um this was a this was a one-time thing, and it was because this person is mentally injured, hurt, work, spent, whatever you want to call it, you you've got the chance. I said, by all means um give you know, give her a sentence, but make it a sentence of somewhere else. She'll she'll be on lockdown, she will she'll have to take prescribed medications and have to work with the counselor and have to get through a problem. And they didn't do that. They said, No. No, they said matter of fact, they originally there was gonna be a 20-year sentence, and I said, That's that's that's horrible. It's a horrible thing. Um So they gave me the option of again, we'll do a five-year deal. And I said, Will she get help during those five years? And they said, No, the first three years is gonna be orange jumpsuit lockdown. She'll get help if she asked for it. I said, but there's no set programs or anything structured. They said, Nope. I said, Well, what happens then? And they said, Well then um if she you know gets through that, then she'll be out and she'll be allowed to um they said there'll be mandatory drug and alcohol screening, mandatory counseling, things like that. Um wear an ankle bracelet, but um ankle bracelets tell you where you've been, not where you're going, unless you've got a live GPS on you. Okay. So uh that those are just just for the record, anybody listen, if somebody says, Oh, that person's got an ankle bracelet on them, that doesn't do you any good. Again, all that does is take that's a tool for the attorneys to say, Well, she knows she's not supposed to go there, and now we can prove that she did. You know, so nobody's picking up the telephone to call you to say she's headed your direction, you better be prepared. Um There there was a case I'm trying to remember the uh the name of it. It was in Mishawaka, Indiana, over by South Bend. There was a guy that was sentenced to eight years um in prison for constantly beating his wife. She finally some of the neighbors finally turned him in and the state, you know, put him in there, so put him in jail. And in the middle of it, they gave him an eight-hour furlough. Didn't tell anybody, they just let him out for eight hours, which gave him enough time to go get his shotgun from a friend to go over and beat her with his shotgun and beat her with the inch of her life, and he finally had her on the ground, he finally stomped on her head and killed her. And the family said, Why? Didn't why wasn't anything said? Why wasn't anybody told? You know, she could have disappeared for eight hours, she could have got out of town, you know. But so they changed rules on furloughs and things from that case. And I tried to, you know, bring that to life, that there there needs to be a notification process in here because in this particular situation, she wasn't she's not only messing with me, she was messing with a lot of people I worked with, with friends, family. Um, I was getting a lot of phone calls and a lot of text messages, and people were nervous about her, you know, getting out. And what do we do? There was a system where she was originally locked up called Vine, and Vine service, you can sign up for that. And when they moved her from one location to another, I did get a text message, things like that. Well, she moved out of state. They've they've they've released her now, and she's moved out of state. So I contacted the state and asked, How do I get notifications? And I said, We don't do we don't do that here. So she's out. Um, she's living probably about 25 minutes from my daughter right now. So I just bought my daughter a security system for her birthday back in June. The cameras all around her house and her all microphones up and front door, back door, and all four corners, and goes to everybody's telephone. And I'm thinking it's really sad that they gotta live like that, but there'll be no notification if she gets out on a uh, you know, if they allow her to do work release so she can go work or whatever, if she just doesn't come home some night, nobody's gonna know. There'll be no notification, no call, no no nothing. That's your question was, how did I name the book? And as I was writing the book, I just thought to myself, I j I I typed the line. I I went through this thing and I just typed the line, no one is listening. And I kept writing, and a few chapters later, it hit me again. I said, No one is listening. I said, Well, there's the title. Nope, no one's listening.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

So well, and yeah, I think go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

The the scales of justice right there, where normally the ladies blindfolded and holding up the holding up the scales. Well, this time it's scales are on the ground, nobody's looking at it. She's blindfolded and got her fingers stuffed in her ear because

Justice System That Misses Warnings

SPEAKER_02 12:37

no one is listening. They're still not listening. Nobody.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Right. And I think that's a very common feeling across the board is no one is listening because there are so many points throughout these relationships where somebody could intervene, somebody could pay attention, somebody could listen. And then definitely afterward, the the bail. You you actually talked about that in your uh in your book too. Her bail was set very low. And and I think that's either there's no bail that will be set for people, they can it just a promissory note or whatever. And that story that you shared, that's not the only story where somebody has gone in with uh charges of domestic violence and has been released and immediately murdered their partner.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Yep. Especially when you, you know, you get you get sent to jail. Now now you're you're madder than you were to begin with. You're irritated. You're you're feeling abused, you know. How come I'm in here and he's still out there when it um yeah. I look at the whole system and and I've got I have zero faith in it anymore. Zero, zero faith. I called and called and called. She was they were gonna let her out on a Sunday, and I got uh notification. Um finally, I think after I went back to the website and it asked me to log in again, and I kept looking at it, went back to my phone, and finally, um a couple hours after she had been released, I got a notification. Oh, she's been released. Well, thanks for letting me know. But I called and I said, um it was a 16-hour road trip to go from where they let her out to where she was supposed to go, and they gave her five and a half days to get there before she had to check in. So I called one state and they said, Well, we don't know till she gets here. I called the other state and says, Well, she's released. I said, Can you tell me where she's at at this moment? Can you tell me where she is? No one could. I said, So what what makes you think that you you locked her up for three years, you've irritated the hell out of her, that she's gonna get out and wreak havoc all around the state, and still have plenty of time to get up and do that. How how do you know? And nobody could give me an answer. Yeah, nobody. They just couldn't they couldn't uh couldn't do a thing. So I just shook my head and realized that well, okay, um I put in my book that you're on your own, you know, unless unless you live with a police officer, all right, you're you're on your own. The cop is not going to be there to help you. And it's not that they don't want to. There's one cop for every 20,000 people or something. I mean, it's they're they're spread so thin, the odds of them being there to stop something horrible from happening to you is is very grim to none. And it's a false sense of security when when people say, Well, just just call the police. Just if something happens, just just call the police. And it doesn't work that way. You know, you can call, they'll they'll get there, you know. Hopefully they got somebody close by and hopefully they can stop whatever happening or catch the bad person in the act, but I don't know. I I had very little faith to begin with, but you know, I always agree with the understanding that I'm an okay guy, I'm not perfect, I've you know, I've made my fair share mistakes and things like that, but I try to be a good person and bad things happen to bad people and good things happen to to good people, and and that's not true. You know, that that's that's not true. I've I've looked at people before that have been through situations like this, and I've never understood it. I always thought, just suck it up, get over it, deal with it, handle it, move on. It's over. Turn the page until it happened to me. And I haven't been able to turn the page. I I don't know how to get there. Um I've I've sat down with a a couple therapists and talked and um both of them pretty much said, You seem to be doing all the right things. You know, you're not drinking and drugging and trying to kill yourself and doing that, you're not eating too much or starving yourself, you're you know, you're not doing anything horrible, you're maintaining your jobs, you're doing everything you're supposed to do, and just keep doing that. And that's okay. I I appreciated hearing that, but it it didn't give me any solutions. So I finally decided that I guess it's a matter of it's a self-help scenario. Um some people get a lot out of counseling and they're they have people they can go speak with, and that's great. Um didn't work it didn't work for me. I didn't get any both of them seemed more concerned about what her diagnosis was. You know, why did she do that? You know, what's wrong with her? And I said, Well, I got a bunch of theories about that, but um not not here to solve her problems right now. I'm here to try to work through mine, and I really didn't get any any good help, if you will. So um I turned to friends and family and and I wrote a book. Put it down on paper. See, you know, see get it out of your head.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, well, I think honestly, when you when you talk about those therapists, I think that's another example of no one is listening because you were doing all the right things before you even went to go talk to them. And obviously the fact that you were there didn't mean they weren't hearing that everything's not okay. And just

Living Without Real Protection

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I I know that you and I had talked previously, and I shared that I had a great I have a great therapist. And sometimes it's just a matter of finding the right person, but no therapist should ever be concerned or on trying to diagnose somebody they're not even seeing. The person they're treating is supposed to be the person in front of them. And I, you know, at one point I had even asked my therapist, well, what do you think? Is he like diagnosed with some sort of personality disorder? And she said, that's not what we're here for. We're not here to figure him out. So that's that's disheartening. It makes me wonder also if if gender plays a role in the fact that the therapists were just still willing to say, Well, you're doing all the right things. And instead of, I think women are expected to be more emotional and expected to, okay, we can dive deeper into the emotion aspect of things.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah. Yeah, men are traditionally men men don't speak a lot. You know, they don't they'll talk a lot, but they don't talk about anything important. They don't talk about anything personal, they don't talk about men don't share their feelings very well. You know, when something bad happens, we just bury them down inside of us until somebody just erupts them, but you know, they don't they don't get it out. And um writing the book was kind of therapeutic, you know, it was good to get to get it out of there. It was it was rough because you gotta relive it. You know, you gotta you gotta relive the book. I uh a friend of mine was the guy who actually did the audiophiles for me. And he he got out I've known him since high school and he got out and he does commercials and cartoons and all kinds of stuff, but he's never done a full book. And he got going and he called me a couple times and he said, I got to tell you He said, Um I've had to stop a few times. He said, I can't uh I can't stop crying. I can't get the sentences out. I've you know, I had to remind him, I said, This is my nightmare, not yours. I said, I appreciate you getting deep into it. But um, it took him a while to get through the book. And but he also opened up and shared some things with me too after he read the book, you know, about about himself personally, which I thought that was great. And he was one of the first guys to really call me back and have conversations about it. And that that's been that's been helpful. Again, I hope that I you know, I hope that the book will help people identify little little things, little triggers, little signs that that may make them stop and think or reanalyze, you know. Um there's something to be said for holding on and holding on and make it work and work through it and and make things happen, but there's also something to be said for knowing when to let go. And I think I should have let go earlier. I should have just let go and said nope, I just I can't do this anymore. This is not what I'm after. But I made a promise, and when I make a promise, you know, for better or for worse for the whole thing, I was one to stick with it and we'll get through this. We'll make this happen. Well, it didn't work out. It didn't work out. You know, part of the thing I think a lot of folks are hanging on, especially men, if you will, is they're hanging on financially. You know, you're married now and you gotta look at where you're at in life and realize that if you pull the plug on this, half of everything you work for is gone. Gone, done. The courts don't care what happened. It's a matter of here's two people now and this is what th th these are these two people, what this is their financial value. And you get half and you get half. You can argue all you want, but it comes down to the fine line is you get half, or you lose half, whatever the case might be. So and in this particular scenario, I lost my ability to retire. So I'm still working and working and working, and um really don't see any end in sight, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, it's it it's so there's there are so many things that I want to make sure that we talk about, but let's let's we're kind of going backwards, but that's I I I I actually like how we're doing This. So let's go backwards. You mentioned that you're hoping that people will read this book and maybe see some of the signs. What were some of the signs now that you can look back at them, knowing what this escalated to be? What were some of the signs that you wish you would have noticed?

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Um, a lot of it started on it started with um she was getting very irritable about anything. Anything. It wasn't one

Red Flags And Early Warning Signs

SPEAKER_02 22:57

particular subject or topic or anything, is everything, and everybody started irritating her. And try to take a deep breath, you know, and re-explain something. I said it this way. No, that's not what has to make me. I'm sorry that it was interpreted the way. Maybe I didn't maybe I didn't put it out there correctly. Let me try to state this a a different way and you know, a different meaning or whatever the case might be. And and even that that didn't work. If you can't if you can't get your point across about anything, that's a big sign. That's a big sign. You know, this person is done done with you and anything you got to say, or they're just refusing to believe anybody, any anything anyone says to a job. That's that's that's a big sign. Um the person's inability to hold down a job. Um her situation, she was in a uh in the medical field under a high pressure job for a while. And I finally said, go do something else. You know, go go do something that's easy, go do something that's not so stressful, go do something that you might enjoy. And she couldn't figure it out and couldn't figure it out and couldn't figure it out. And um she finally said, Well, I'll take a chance on this. And she went and sold clothes for a while, and that seemed to be good for a little bit, just for a little bit. But then all of a sudden, everybody she worked with. There was something wrong with them. They were trying to steal her customers, they were cheating her out of this and not treating her right, or and I watched her go from job to job to job. And the first couple times that happened, I thought it was the job. Then after, you know, five, six jobs later, I realized that's not the job. It's it's it's her. It's her. Communication is key and normal behavior is key. When you see things that are just abnormal, there's people that'll get a job and hold it for 30 years. Um when you can't hold a job for any more than a than a few months, up to maybe a year, before you gotta move on to do something else because the job's totally wrong, um, it's probably not the job. So that's just a couple, you know, a couple examples. I don't know. I don't know if there was and then there's not one thing you could you could pinpoint to say, oh, here it is, and be able to identify it. And my oldest sister has a master's degree and she um she works with negotiations, if you will, peer mediation. She gets people talking together. Um the courts use her quite a bit to get um conflicts resolved, and she spends a lot of time with with married couples just to try to get them to to talk, to resolve some issues and learn how to do that. And I told her I tried this and tried this, and she finally said, Well, you know, we are you a trained psychologist or a psychiatrist or whatever? I said, No. Then she says, You're responsible for your own mental health and no one else's. You are not responsible for their mental health. And I finally I had to hear that from somebody that I love and trust, like my sister, for it to really get home. And I thought, yeah, you know what? I was trying and trying and trying. I was trying to do something I don't know how to do. It's okay to ask for help. You know, it's definitely okay to ask for help. I probably should have asked for help for her before she asked for help. When I finally got to the point where she said, you know, I'm trying to trying to figure this out, trying to do this, and I'm and you know, I finally said, Why don't you go see a counselor? Why don't you talk about it? Well, in the long run, it was a couple counselors she didn't she didn't like well, found out later they wouldn't prescribe her medication. And when she finally found some that would, then those were her favorites. So she was in in search of the you know, in in search of the drugs, if you will. And I think that's too bad because there were probably some good counselors that could have helped her, you know, without the use of Xanax and those type of those type of things. But she finally got some doctors that would prescribe her things, but they weren't following up with it. It's like here's a handful of pills, go home and sort them out, and we'll see you in a month and uh let us know what worked and what didn't. And the outcome's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah, that's a horrible outcome. Do you know if she had any and you mentioned work, but did she have any previous, tumultuous previous relationships or with other family members?

SPEAKER_02 27:40

She started eliminating people from from her life, if you will. She all of a sudden people that were always good to her, always treated her fairly, always treated her nicely. They would say something that would trigger it. Um politics didn't help, you know, at all because a lot of her friends were on the other side of the fence. And I said, When we first got together, I told her I I stopped voting a while back. I quit watching the news back in 2005. Um I realized how that really affected my life not watching the news was I quit grinding my teeth and I quit hating everybody. So it didn't change my job, it didn't change my life, it didn't change where I live, what I drove, uh it didn't change a thing to not vote. I'm not telling anybody don't go vote because that's your right and the whole thing. But for me, um, took me out of there. I quit watching the news, I I stopped voting and said, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. I'm gonna focus on my life over here and my job and my family and my life, if you will. And I'm not gonna pay attention to all that. And she did the same thing for a while. She was pretty peaceful. Then she started watching the news again. And she started picking people off one by one. Off with their head. Don't want you around me anymore. I'm done with you, don't talk to me. I'm blocking you off Facebook, I'm blocking you, I'm taking your telephone number off. These are people that she had known 20 and 30 years. And people were calling me, going, what is going on? And I go, I don't know. Hang in there, you know. I think she's salvageable. I think I think she'll she'll be back. I think it's a it's a spurt, it's an episode, it's uh whatever you want to call it, it's a temporary thing. Um and it wasn't. Again, there's there's quite a few signs and symptoms in there that I should have handled differently and I didn't. You know, I just kept trying to work through it with her and try to help her find the right doctors to work through it, and it didn't work. You know, it didn't work. I told one lady after it happened before she was actually sent to prison what I was trying to do, and she said, I think she said, I think you're doing it wrong. And I said, Well, why is that? And she says, How well did the treatment and all that work in the private sector outside of an organized thing like that? And I said, Well, horribly. You know, I went horribly wrong. And she said, What makes you think that um giving her a shorter sentence and the whole thing is gonna help all that? She needs to be somewhere, she needs to be locked down, she needs to be forced to to get better, if you will. She said, A lot of folks are like that. You've gotta you gotta push them over the edge. They can't just want it. You know, they need to want it, but um, she needs to be in a situation and she told me, I think you're doing this wrong. And I was so deep into it already that the train was already rolling down the tracks. It was too late to to change directions, if you will, and go back and try to get a well, the courts finally told her told me that no, we're not going to do that. That's not going to happen. These are your only options. Either she's gonna get a reduced sentence, and this is what's gonna happen to three years and then two years afterwards, or it's back to the 20 years. They said that if you'll take the the the lesser sentence, that's what we're gonna go with. If you won't, there's no more options for you. It's back to 20 years. So knowing what I know now, I probably would have given them a different answer.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

But I didn't. So that's on me.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

So okay, we don't want to give away too much of the book because we want people to read the book, but you your story, what happens, escalates very quickly. You don't have a story of long-lasting physical abuse that um, and that I want

How Fast Violence Can Escalate

SPEAKER_00 31:37

people to understand that that can happen. That doesn't, it's not always somebody who is getting beat every day, and then just one day it goes too far. It's I mean, actually, I just had a conversation with someone um that she was saying, I want to believe one out of five, and I might have this statistic wrong, but one out of five domestic violence homicides, that was the first time that there was anything physical that happened, and it ended up in a homicide.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

This, again, I don't want to, I don't want to give the book away. Um, very few and far between. We had a 13-year run of living under the same roof. Um we were married for 10 years and lived together for three years. Um, I tell people the first nine years were great. We had a lot of fun. It was great. Um, and then it started just getting getting strange. It didn't get physical. Um towards the end it started getting a little more physical. Got a drink thrown on my face one time. Um and I've you know, how do you react to that? You know, if a man would have done that to me, we'd have been scrapping, you know. But you can't, you step back, you get a towel, you drag your face off, you get around it, get through it, get done with it. But yeah, it went very, very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Very, very quickly from zero to zero to here it is, caught me off guard.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Caught me way off guard.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Well, and then so another thing we wanted to talk about was what happens afterward. And I think this is a really big part of our conversation, I believe, because one question that so many people ask is why didn't you leave this relationship sooner? And one, you've already mentioned financial reasons is one that keeps people um and another one is because abuse doesn't end necessarily when the relationship ends. And there's when you're able to put some thought process into leaving and escaping safely and making sure everything is stable, that's great. Sometimes people don't necessarily have a choice. It's just something abruptly happens and the relationship's over, but that doesn't mean the fear isn't over. And you already mentioned she went to prison and you didn't know where she was when she got out.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

I don't know where she's at right now. Not a clue. Not not a clue.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

The the the system has said, well, we've done what we said we were gonna do, and um I started the the day they let her out, I started jotting my notes down, okay, about what was happening. And I've got about eight rough chapters right now, and I don't know what I'm gonna do with them. I'm just again just dropping dropping notes down so I can try to try to keep all this straight. But um

Hypervigilance After It Ends

SPEAKER_02 34:47

I I said I watched uh watched a commercial, it was a drug commercial, and and the guy says um it's time to get busy living. And I got thinking, that's right. You know, this has been about a uh uh four-year process for me right now, and I found myself lurking around corners and peeking out of the blinds and being careful and trying to stay off the stay off the the main roadways, if you will, and stay off the internet and um I'm not gonna do that anymore. Alright, I'm I'm I'm tired of it. I'm I'm I'm tired. It it's time to I've come to the conclusion that uh whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen and and I don't know I don't know what's gonna happen, but whatever it is is gonna happen, and I'm I'm I'm more worried about folks around me than I'm myself right now. You know, I'm I'm worried about my children, I'm worried about people I work with. I don't know I don't know what's gonna happen on the other side of this. And again, with with zero cooperation from the authorities as far as can we at least know where she's at? I don't know what else to do at this point. I really don't.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

And that that is such a real I mean it's real, you're living it, but it's such a real fear for so many people because you have to think about getting together for family events, holidays, birthdays, graduations, things like that. Yep, she might find you.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. She is back up um by my hometown where my kids live now and all that. And we've already had discussions about Thanksgiving and Christmas and things about trying to get home this year and what to do and how to do it, and should I do it and shouldn't I do it? Um I think you you gotta get yourself to the point where are you gonna control your own destiny and control your own life, or are you gonna let somebody else continue to to keep jabbing at you to keep you living in doubt and living in fear and things like that? And I'm thinking I think I'm done with that. You know. Um my dad was big into dream therapy. Um Elizabeth Kubler Ross was a friend of his. And um she was one of the first ones to talk about the five stages of grief. And I started looking at those thinking I I I think I've run through them all. You know, grief grief's grief, you know, grief is grief. It's it's it's whether you're you you've lost something somewhere along the way. And you know, whether somebody's died, uh your life has changed, whatever the case might be. You you can go through these five stages, you know, first one's denial. This can't be happening. Can't be happening. You're just confused. Like, look at your situation. You you went through it for quite a while, and I've done there from talking to you. I know there's times you've got to be thinking to yourself, This can't be happening. Can't you know it it can't be? Why in the world? You know. And then you you get beyond that, and the next one is anger, and now you're pissed. You know, now you're pissed that this happened to you, and your life is not what you had planned, it's not what you intended it to be. And you know nobody ever wants to blame themselves. Did I make some mistakes? Sure, sure. Nobody's perfect, everybody makes mistakes along the way, you know, you learn as you go. Um you get mad about it. You know, you you get mad, and then you work yourself into where you're you're bargaining. And either you're negotiating with God, you know, help me through this and we'll do this, or if we'll, you know, I'll I'll make this happen, if you make this happen and and you start to bargain through it, then you realize that bargaining really doesn't work. And the next one stage four is depression. And I've been I'm talking unconsolable snap bubbles out of my nose. Um, can't catch my breath palpable. Um just I've never felt that before in my life ever. Gets back to what I was saying earlier. I've told people, why don't you just get over it? Why don't you just get through it? Well, sometimes you can't, and I know that now. I d I didn't know that I didn't know that five years ago. I know it now. So then you finally get down to you you have to accept it. Okay, it is what it is. There's no changing it, there's no going back. There, there's there's no there's there's no fixing it. There's nothing. There's there's nothing nothing that can be nothing that can be done. And uh you just gotta learn to accept it.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Yeah, and it's you can I mean definitely I've gone through every one of those stages more than once, and it's not fair. It's it's a horrible thing to be able to say to somebody, but it's not fair. It's not so many people will say, well, there's two sides to every story. Well, not necessarily though. There may be little subtle fluctuations in, you know, was this verbatim or or whatever, but in these circumstances, there's not two sides to every story. There is a bad guy and there is a good guy. Um, the good guy may not be a pristine person. However, there's one person who is inflicting this horror on another, and it's not warranted. It's not, you didn't do something to deserve it, I didn't do something to deserve it, other people have not done something to deserve it. It's just these are just inherently bad people. Some have mental disorders, some have personality disorders, but regardless, they're they're just bad. And it's it's a sucky thing to realize that yeah, you really can't do anything about it and other than learn how to live with these consequences. While they may be out there with none, no consequences. She served her time, but now she's free, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Yeah, now she's um she's supposed to be in a lockdown situation, if you will. Um, I don't want to go into all the gory details about it, but um, she's supposed to be, she has she had to you know check herself back in with the authorities and meet a probation officer. And they're I I think she's supposed to get a job. Well, one person said she's required to get a job, the other person said no, that wouldn't be allowed. So yeah, that's conflicting stories. I I I don't know. You know, I couldn't get a straight answer out of anybody. Um, but they did say that it is going to be mandatory drug and alcohol screening and mandatory counseling, which makes me feel a little bit better. But if you read the book, you'll understand why I really have my doubts about that, you know, as well. Um I have a lot of doubts about that.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

I don't yeah, I think uh drugs, I mean drugs and alcohol, I think, can exacerbate a problem that's already there. But I think so many people like to blame drugs and alcohol, as that's the reason why these people have acted the way they have. And that's not the case.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

The more I I learned about her as the years went by, um I blame her parents. All right. I think she was raised by wolves, and I think there's something deeply, deeply ingrained, there's something deeply off in there. And I don't know what happened between her and her parents. And um, I don't know, but there's there's something happened there. Something. And that's a deep flaw within there. And you're right, you start throwing drugs and alcohol on top of that, and it just multiplies it and makes it so much worse than it ever needed to be. But I had somebody say, you know, you're talking about good guys and bad guys, and I had one person say, Well, it's like you're uh you're doing your sentence but committed no crime. Yeah, that'd be a great line for a song right there. Right? It hit home. You know, it hit home. I thought, yeah, you know, right now I had I've I've had to change my life and everything about it. I mean, everything about it, where I was at, where I live, what I own, um everything. Um my my life has completely changed from being the guy I was with people around me and where I'm at to now I'm in a different location. I'm living alone with my cat and my dog. And I I I I can sit back and feel sorry for myself. And I probably do a little bit, you know. Um

Grief, Triggers, And Acceptance

SPEAKER_02 43:33

but I also tell myself this is temporary. It's temporary. This this thing's gonna come to it's gonna come to a head sometime. Um I I think it'll be later than sooner. I don't think this thing's gonna just go away. I think it's gonna it's gonna die down, it's gonna be forgotten about, and then it's gonna it's gonna blow up and it's gonna finish. So that's the way that's my prediction for it.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

So well, and honestly, you're you're going to be the expert on this. Do you know what I mean? Like you, you know her better than anyone, and you've lived this, you know you. I I always say whoever's on the receiving end, whatever their gut is telling them is accurate. If they feel they are in danger, they are 100% in danger because you know.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Oh, yeah. When the hair stands up on the back of your neck, you're supposed to pay attention. Yeah, you really are, dude. Did you know when something was coming at you?

SPEAKER_00 44:34

I did. I knew it for a couple months ahead of time. I knew something bad was was on the horizon. And actually, the morning of I knew it was going to happen that day. I looked, I actually remember looking at my watch. It was nine o'clock in the morning and I made notation. Nine o'clock in the morning, and I know it's going to be today.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Yeah. It no, it changed a little bit. Like the the course of the day changed a little to where I thought, oh, maybe I was wrong. Maybe it's not going to be today after all. Um, but it it came back. It came back later in the night. And that was, yeah, that was, I was a hundred percent accurate. And I think I think that probably the majority of us, if you are truly honest with yourself and go back and think about it, I think most of us would be able to say there was a feeling.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah. And my situation being of the male species, you know, there's there's shelters set up for people and things like that, but I am way too bullheaded, way too proud, way too whatever you want to call it, to go put myself in the shelter because I'm afraid of somebody. All right, because I never thought that my situation would get to the situation I got to never. I'd lost that bet. I would have I'd have bet the farm on it and I would have lost it because I've no there's so many people that I called and said, I want to tell you what's happened, and and people have said, I gotta call you back. They call me back half hour later and I said, I I I can't wrap my head around this. You're kidding me. Are you sure?

SPEAKER_03 46:17

I said, Oh yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

I know.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Uh the one lady from the court system said, Well, you know, she did this and this, and I said, I know, I was there. I really know there's one person that remembers it, it's me. Um I think if you know, if you got, you know, a a a woman with children and or you know, whatever the case might be and it's getting ugly, um there they're they set places like that up to get out. It's not perfect, but but there's an option to go to. Um I walked out walk out, I ran out, crawled out and had no idea where to go or what to do. Not a cloak, you know, not not a cloak. And then you you're trying to talk yourself through this thing and trying to analyze what's just happened and how do you make this better?

SPEAKER_03 47:13

How do you how do you fix this? My parents raised me to fix things. Just fix it.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

And you know, they say everything's repairable. Watched my dad rewire a toaster one time 'cause we didn't have much money and he got some wire, I took it apart. I thought, well, I guess you can fix everything, can't you? So but um I think what people are are spent when when they're to the end, I don't know that there's a a good fix. I don't think there's a common fix. Everybody's different, of course, and everybody's gotta, you know, be be mented differently, but I I don't have a lot of hope for her. I really don't. Which is sad for me to say.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

I read a book called Why Does He Do That by Lindy Bancroft, and he studied now, he studied men, uh, male abusers, and he would have them in groups, kind of like um a support group, sort of, but it was a group. I think he was trying to help them. And but at the same time, he was studying them to try to figure out if there's a commonality amongst them. And there is. And he said there is such a small, small percentage. I almost got the impression that he was reluctant to even say that anybody could be rehabilitated. I don't know what the right term is for that, but I think that you can't say never. So I think he was saying that there's a very, very, very small percentage of people who are like this that actually are treatable. Now, again, if it's a if you have a mental health diagnosis like schizophrenia or something like that, there are medications that can help and that that might be something different. But uh I think in your case, that doesn't sound like it to me. In my case, it doesn't sound like it to me. It's it's a it's a scary, eerie feeling. I think this was another thing that you and I talked about before is that there's not really rest for so many of us with going through what we went through if that person, even when they're in prison, it doesn't mean you're safe. And right. And and and you had a a valid physical threat even while she was in prison.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Yes, I've I've had yeah, I've had multiple warnings from multiple people about be careful, be cognizant of your surroundings, and you're right, you don't sleep, you don't it's it's on your mind constantly. It doesn't leave. I mean, you'll you distract yourself from it for a little while, but it's always back there again. I think that's what's really been bothering me lately. That's why again, why I'm hoping that that more people read this book so they don't have to get to the point where they're sitting somewhere by themselves being leery of the world. I think the world's a great place, man. There's great people in it, and I love watching the sunrise and the sunset and look at oceans and and going for boat rides and just you know, just go live life. Just do the whole thing, and since this happened, um I've made myself get up every morning and watch the sun come up. And thank God I'm still here and I thank God another day. Hope I don't screw it up too bad. Um but it's always in the back of your mind. It's all it's always there. Walking on the beach. Had a guy walk up to me, hold his hand up in the air, and I'm thinking, uh oh, what's this? And come to find out while I had my uh my Cubs hat on, my Chicago Cubs hat, and he was a Cubs fancy, he was coming up high-fiving me because they had just, you know, swept their swept their division in the whole thing. I was like, wow. You know, but for that that split second, I had to I'd stop walking, look at this guy to analyze him real quick, what are you doing? Why are you coming up to me like this? And I've never been like that, ever. But now I'm I'm I'm lyriacs. It is it has changed me not only physically but mentally.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Um I didn't ask, didn't ask for any of that. So again, hopefully this will help somebody.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

I think so. And I think that whoever's listening, I want them to understand too that this is your your story has got to a very high level. And it doesn't mean that whatever happens has to get to this extreme level. It you can have whatever abuse is happening, that can still leave you with these same feelings. It will still take you through the all of those stages of grief and denial and anger. You can still have this hypervigilance where you're walking around looking behind your back all the time, taking extra precautions. And another thing is your body never forgets, your brain may suppress things. So something might happen that never bothered you before, that now suddenly it's it's this trigger. You start to have this physical reaction to something.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Yeah. Knowing what you know now, after you've been through what you've been through and knowing more about the person and the whole thing, would you have done things differently? I would say in hindsight's 2020, but um, would would you have done things differently? Would you have left sooner? Would you have asked for help sooner? Would you have done any of those things?

SPEAKER_00 53:13

I I am still convinced to this day that if I would have done things differently, which I never involved police, I never filed a report. I think that if I would have done any of those things, somebody would not be here today, either me or him. And um I am I am convinced of that. I think that there was at one point I would have definitely been granted a protection order. I think he would have walked right through that protection order. Um, I wish, I wish I would have realized what these red flags identified now, which is fantastic. That's one thing I will say I love about the younger generations coming forward and their use of social media in for in ways of informing each other of what these behaviors are that are not okay. And I wish I would have been aware, I wish somebody would have told me, hey, these are red flags, these are things that are you need to keep an eye out for because it's not blatant, it's not like he he was screaming at me or anything. It was just little tiny, subtle pieces of control over the years. And um I think I wish now, if I knew now what I did then, the relationship would have ended right probably when it was starting.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Yes. Yes. There's a line in the song Bob Seeger.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then. And that that hits home quite a bit. Because you're right, there's there's not there's not one set of circumstances that will point exactly this is exactly what's gonna happen, and this is how to handle it. All of a sudden it's it's there, it rears its ugly head right in front of you, and you you're forced to make some really quick snap decisions that you had never planned on before you like. I said, I did a paramedic thing for for seven years, but they run you through training, you know, and this might happen, or this might happen, and this might happen. And you learn it all through the books and through classes or training, but you don't get it until you're out there and it presents itself in front of you, but at least you've you've been given some some guidelines on how to handle it and what to do. And when you get into a domestic violence situation that you were not prepared for and not ready to handle, or didn't see it coming, you don't know what to do. I mean you you you really don't don't know what to do on how to handle it. And the fact that that both of us are sitting here on this thing right now, able to talk, pretty good thing. You know, that's a yeah. That's that's a pretty good thing. That's God watching out right there. Yeah, okay, we give you another chance.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Yeah. And what are you gonna do with that other chance? And here we are, hopefully, hopefully our next chance is helping someone. Um, but it's yeah, you you might have something abrupt happen where you're like, oh my god, I need to get out now. Or it may be where you're so far gone because they destroy who you were. You're not the same person at the end of that relationship as you were at the beginning. And you may lack, yeah, lack the confidence, lack you might have lost actually friends and family over time because of the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Yep. Yep, absolutely. I get folks that that you know check in on me from time to time, you know, it it's more of a it's humorous to them. No, let's call to see if you're still alive and kicking. Like, oh yeah, I'm still here. You know, still plugging away. But that that question, what do you do with yourself after that? You know, when technically, um, I shouldn't be here. All right, I shouldn't be standing there. I just still, for the life of me, can't figure out why I am, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it yet. My grandfather was a pastor, my father was a pastor, my cousin's a pastor. Um, I ended up being the bartender. Um which is similar in ways, but yeah. Um don't know I don't know what I'm supposed to do with things. I I moved to a um New York I've sold everything I had and I've moved and and um I've met like three guys here so far. I was trying to find somebody I can go sit down, have a beer with, got dinner with, you know, something. Um all three guys want to drag me to church. And I'm glad people have churches and I'm glad they're there, and some people that works for them. Um I you know, I was raised up in an environment where you gotta be went to church, but

Rebuilding Life And Sharing Resources

SPEAKER_02 57:57

I finally told the last guy, I said, I really appreciate what you're trying to do for me. I really do. But right now sitting around reading Bible verses, holding hands with 12 guys singing kumbaya is not what I need. I don't know what I need, but that's not it. Thanks for asking. I appreciate it. But I don't think that's gonna be much help for me. Um really glad that they're out there and a lot of people find refuge and they find answers and things like that, but um I haven't been able to look at that as as something that's gonna be helpful to me. So I don't know. I don't I don't know what the answers are. Um I think I'm gonna finish checking out the second book. I've got some ideas, and as they come to my head, I'm taking notes, and I think I'm gonna work on that. And if I'm still around by the time it's released, then we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

So yeah, okay. Well, so if anybody uh where can people get your book and how is there any way that they can keep tabs on when the second book will come out?

SPEAKER_02 59:03

I I went ahead and published with Amazon, so it's on Amazon.com. Um there's a hardback version, there's a paperback version, there's like a Kindle version. Um, and now the audio, the Audible is out uh also. Uh so there's four ways to get it. Um, I mean there's other places there's Barnes and Nobles has it. Um I think online, I think you can get it with Target or you know, whoever the case might be there. But um geez, 98% of the books that have been sold. And um I haven't sold a whole lot of copies yet. I think I've sold like 180 copies. Um I've got over 55-star reviews, so I think it's um must not be too bad from a guy who had no idea what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Uh I'll jump in and say, I actually I I need to go ahead and put a review up, but I did read your book. I've read lots of books. I've had quite a few people uh on who have written books, and I tried to read everyone's. Your book was very easy to read. I would have, I would have probably finished it in one sitting if I didn't have kids constantly talking to me, but uh it was I finished it very, very quickly. It's very easy to read. It I I suppose it could be triggering for some individuals, but I don't think it was, it's not such a an in-your face kind of book where it's difficult to read. I have had some books where I couldn't finish right away that have had to sit down and come back because there's just so much detail, uh like gory detail to what happened. But this was definitely, I think, a very, very good book. I would highly recommend it uh to anybody. And I'm looking forward to the sequel. Any ideas on how long it's gonna take?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

No. I I don't know. I I'm I've started it and stopped it and started and stopped it. And and um I I need to be able to just, you know, it's it's a matter of attitude. You know, you sit down and and some nights it's

How To Support The Book

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

there and it's just coming out. The other nights I sit down and I go, No, I don't want to talk about this right now. I'll go watch something on TV.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

Yeah, you have to get away from it sometimes, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Yeah, you really do. Otherwise it'll just consume you and and uh I don't know. I I would tell anybody that's listening to this that, yeah, please buy a copy of the book. It's three hours of your life, you'll never get back. It's um it's a quick read. Um I've I've had some good reviews. I've had people in the in the reviews say it's kind of like we're sitting around a campfire talking. And yes. That's I want to keep life simple and keep keep life easy. But um also, yeah, if you do, um please go back and write a review. Um, I'd never talked about publishing a book before. Um and I finally said, how you know, how do you how do you get your book into the mainstream? And they said, Well, unless Oprah picks it up and loves it and tells everybody the only way you're gonna get there is to hire a publicist at $10,000 a month. That's not gonna happen. All right. Or um they said, just keep getting good strong reviews on the book and book time. People will find it, and they'll share it with another and share it with another and share it with another. And I said, Well, that'd be great. Um, I never thought I'd really draw any income off this book, um, but I'd like to get it out there for as many people as good and see see where it goes, and then we'll just uh we'll see how this whole thing plays out with the sequel to it and um see what comes from there.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

Well, uh I'm gonna uh wrap things up. Is there anything that any words of encouragement or wisdom that you would like to leave as a lasting impression with our listeners?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

I'm a music buff, I'm a lyric buff. I've learned a lot from that. And there's a line from Fleetwood Mac from Landslide that says, I've been afraid of changing because I built my life around you. But time makes you bolder and children get older, and I'm getting older too. If you're in a situation um you don't know how to change, but if you're uh if you're in a bad situation, an abusive situation, whether it's whether it's physical or mental or whatever, get out of it. Get out, make a change, do it. Just just make the change. Scary as hell, terrifying. Make the change. That would be my if I had to do things all over again, uh, might have done things differently. But I appreciate you having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

I appreciate you coming on, Ray.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:40

Thank you so much. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

You too. Thank you again for joining me today, Ray, and thank you, Warriors, for listening. You can find the Amazon link to purchase Ray's book as well as his Beyond the Statistics profile in the show notes. I will be back next week with another episode for you. Until then, stay strong. And wherever you are in your journey, always remember you are not alone. To learn more, explore episode resources, browse the collections, or register as a guest, visit Beyondthatistics Podcast.com. If today's episode meant something to you, please share it with someone who may need it. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and follow Beyond the Statistics on social media. Beyond the Statistics is a.5 Panoy production. Music written and performed by Tim Crow.